[Vlad]

Originally Posted by treegate

Well let's start with the fact that YOU turned it into a personal attack, not I. You first went off spewing your comments unleashed to a certain degree, not I. I only defended my views and rightfully so. You may disagree with me all day long, and for that I understand, but it's how YOU chose to do it. You are allowed to share your opinion and I am allowed to disagree, and vice versa.

You appear to be anti-capitalism by your posting, thus, anti-personal gain. In all seriousness what is wrong with a person making a profit? Using the example of the PipBoy Edition, what is wrong with someone reselling it and making a profit for themselves perhaps using that profit to better their situation, which could be a situation you aren't familiar with? How do you know a person who is profiting isn't using that money to help pay a medical bill or help provide for their family? You don't so it's best not bash someone just because they want to profit when it comes to selling.

Yes I agree, it would be nice if there would be a way for everyone who wanted a PipBoy Edition to get one at retail but in this case what I feel you are completely forgetting is the fact that it is a "Limited Edition". You have a huge demand but a low supply. Generally when that happens, the secondary prices on the supply go up, because demand dictates it.

Follow me with this....let's say you have 1000 PipBoy Editions and you have 5000 people who all want one at retail. You put them up for sale at retail price, some people know about them going up, some people don't. Some people feel it is wise to get one now, while others feel they will wait and get one later in a store (despite the fact that the stores won't have them). You make it clear its a limited edition and for sake of the argument you disclose that there are only 1000 made (where in reality Bethesda never said how many were made but they continued to have the factory produce as many as possible until the factory said "no more" to them).

Now, all 1000 sell out. You have 4000 people who didn't get one. You then have 100 of those people who got one who decide they want to resell it. Now what is fair? For those 100 people to go to the remaining 4000 people and then look at them and say "Ok you are worthy of buying mine at retail, but you over there aren't." How is that fair? Don't you think what would be better is say "Ok I am going to sell mine, and I am going to put it up on x auction website and start it off at retail price, you 4000 people will dictate the final selling price". So now you have 4000 people who can either bid on it
or not. No one is forcing them to bid and purchase it, they are given a choice, they can either bid, or not. Now, someone really wants it, and they are willing to pay 4x the retail price. Is it bad or wrong that someone is willing to pay that? Is it equally wrong for the seller to then accept that as a final winning bid price? No it's not. All 4000 people had in this case a chance to bid, if some didn't want to pay over retail, then that is understandable its a choice pure and simple.

Now don't go down hard on the seller, as he let the 4000 dictate the final price. Don't be hard on the winning bidder because he really wanted the item, more so than anyone else, and perhaps just because he/she can afford it doesn't make them any less of a person. Now the original owner has sold his for 4x retail price. Under your logic that person is bad, they are a "greedy capitalist" even though you have no clue what this person intends to do with the money. They could be using the extra money to help themselves get out of debt, or help someone in their family with medical expenses, etc. The fact of the matter is YOU assume a person is greedy despite the fact that you don't know what they are using the money for.

At the end of the day we are talking about a "limited edition" item, which I think you haven't realized that when you have something limited, not everyone will be able to get one. It is not my responsibility or obligation to sell it at my cost, there is no law that says I or anyone else has to. If I want to profit or better yet if YOU wanted to profit, then more power to you. You won't be frowned up, better still, you should NOT be frowned upon for selling at a profit, regardless of what that profit amount is, especially if the profit will go to better your life or someone you knows life. Make sense?

Again, we can go round and round about it, but why? We will both disagree so really what is the point? You believe in everyone getting something for the same price, and I do as well to a point, but I am also very much for profit, for capitalism. I want to better my life for myself, I don't want handouts and expect someone to better my life for me. That isn't meant to be a dig at you at all so don't take it that way.

This is what I meant by the not seeing eye-to-eye, that we should of course just leave it as we obviously don't agree but I'll answer the points you asked about as a courtesy for typing such a long answer to me in the hope that we can agree to disagree and at least leave it somewhat amicably.


Now my problem with the personal gain is in the way that it's done, the way scalping and reselling is done screws others and it's that selfishness, to give it a name, that I find abhorrent.
Sure, you might have all these justifications but you're still doing it in a way that screws other people for your own gains. (Although, really this isn't a dig at you but as a genuinely funny point, perhaps they wouldn't have to desperately try to pay for medical bills if there was something like, oh, I don't know, the NHS?) When I was in a bad place and could've used the extra money I could've made a killing off of CEs but I didn't because it would have gone against my morals of screwing other people for my gain, it simply wouldn't have been right to me, justification or no justification.

And again, you're not picking up on my point when you claim that I'm forgetting how a limited edition works. I'm obviously well aware that some people will miss out and be disappointed, what I'm meaning is that things would be better if they at least got a fair chance of securing the item through people only ordering as much as they actually need.

Also, as far as your scenario goes, it's off too, the 100 resellers wouldn't be choosing who's worthy or not, if those 100 were returned to the pot it would be that chance again for someone to get it, it isn't a case of deciding who is worthy as far as someone wanting one for themselves and not profit goes so without that understanding of what I'm meaning it shakes the rest of the scenario, however what I will say is that your point of the person paying 4x more is also flawed in this argument because I personally see that also as the problem with reselling in real life, again, it comes to that difference in viewpoint where I believe that just because you have more money, that shouldn't give you an advantage over someone else and so again, that falls to the unfair category.

And another again, the justification does not matter when it impacts others in this way, that's my point also that you aren't getting, the very nature of scalping and reselling is screwing people over for your personal gain, that's the issue I have, people could justify almost anything, it doesn't mean that their actions are then justifiable.

I won't take your last point as a dig if you don't take mine as a dig then because, the same as you, it isn't meant to be, I just want to explain my viewpoint, I am very much for fairness and equality in every way and I don't care for valuing personal profit over other, more important things, whether that's in something as ultimately futile as collectors editions or in education, healthcare, etc. I also want to better my life through hard work and I don't want 'handouts' but I also don't see those that need help in times of need or things like the NHS or free prescriptions or free University as bad things that eat into my precious hoard of personal wealth, if I have to pay more tax to keep things like this for me and for everyone else, so be it, I'll be happy with that if it makes things better for everyone.