A Sad Collectors story and food for though.

[gurpswoo1]

The floods in Austrailia are truely awful, even more so was the loss of belonging of a Retro game collector. I will ofcourse admit that physical objects can no way be compared to the loss of lives in the disaster, it's still a sad story.

Vintage Gaming Collection Washed Away In Aussie Floods
Over the past week, large areas of Australia's eastern seaboard have been ravaged by floods. Billions of dollars worth of damage has been done, and sitting quietly amidst that tally is this man's retro gaming hardware collection.

Aussie collector NFG's house in Queensland was among those affected, flood waters getting into his home and destroying many of his personal belongings. Among those belongings was an amazing collection of retro gaming hardware, once a glittering array of the medium's past, now a worthless pile of mud-soaked plastic and chipboards (and rare Nintendo hanafuda cards).

PC-Engines, old Sega consoles, Neo Geos, Spectrums, FM Town Martys, old Nintendo Game & Watch handhelds...all gone. You can check out the damage in the gallery below.

The floods so far have cost twenty lives, with grave fears for dozens more still reported missing. To give you an idea of the scale of the disaster, late last week the total area of the state of Queensland lying underwater was larger than that of Germany and France put together.

[Gallery @ NFG]


Check out the full story and pictures from Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5735493/vintage-gaming-collection-washed-away-in-aussie-floods/gallery/?skyline=true&s=i)


This does bring up a big and important question, home insurance policies do not cover our games and items, in fact any collectable goods require special insurance. The maximum cover would be the retail price of new games and not the value of goods on ebay. Older games would be considered nothing.

It doesn't have to be a natural disaster, it could be fire or theft.

So has anyone considered this and taken any precautions, some of us have items worth in the thousands region.

[Mandingo]

Aw man, that sucks, but at least the guy ended up unharmed.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

It's something I have been researching for a number of years, only to be told the same as you - Collectible items have to have special insurance and aren't covered under standard home insurance

The thing is, especially for the likes of me and you, many of our collectible games are still in sealed condition. Now a lot of these are worth much more than their original RRP now, especially some older games like SNES or N64 etc, but like you say, where the insurance company is concerned these are worth peanuts, despite the fact that some can be worth hundreds of Pounds!

Newer games can be insured under an old for new policy, where they will pay out the cost to purchase a new copy of a game currently available. Unfortunately, it's impossible trying to get through to these people that sealed retro games are technically still brand new, and the cost of replacing them with a like for like item is much more than what they believe - That's even if you COULD find another in the same condition! I can safely say that a vast majority of my sealed games are possibly one of a kind and the last surviving sealed copy, so these would be irreplaceable


I would really want an itemised insurance policy, where each item is given an estimated value, and I pay a percentage of that for insurance. Even if you only insured a select minority of your collection, say items over £50, then that would at least be a little peace of mind that your rarer and more valuable games are insured for what they are worth, rather than the pittance that some copy of Shrek 2 for GameCube is worth...

Obviously if I have twenty or so sealed N64 games which are each worth over £100 each, i'd be keen to insure them for the price that it would cost me to replace them in the same condition, rather than the cost of a cart only copy on eBay!

I personally believe that these sort of things should be insured for their current market resale value. Eg, I know that a sealed copy of Paper Mario for the N64 is worth between £400-£600, so therefore i'd want to insure it for that much in the same way that you would a family heirloom or antique. Why should a collectible video game be any different? If you had a painting or vase or other trinket lying around the house which was worth that much, you'd be keen to add it to the home insurance, so why not your collection? The condition, age, and availability of certain things is sometimes what makes them valuable, be it an antique, work of art, vintage teapot, or a retro video game kept in pristne condition


If a fire or flood ravished my home, I would lose more than my collection. I would lose my investment for the future, but not only that, I would have lost ten years of my life which I spent collecting these things, not to mention the money I had spent.

I can completely sympathise with the Australian guy who had his entire collection wasted by the recent floods. I can personally say that I would not have the courage to sift through my destroyed belongings and see the devestation, and it would honestly break me more than anything! It would be heart wrenching, so I think this guy has a lot of guts to do what he's done and to sort through the wreckage and post pictures of it up on the internet! I hope he gets some kind of compensation for his efforts, as he was just a normal guy like you or I who was happy collecting and had it all taken away from him through no fault of his own!

[Mandingo]

I have an idea: let's put our collections in one giant jiffy bag. Hey, some companies out there find it to be adequate protection, so we should too! :lol:

[gurpswoo1]

I have an idea: let's put our collections in one giant jiffy bag. Hey, some companies out there find it to be adequate protection, so we should too!
Play.com strikes again.

My collection isn't in the same league as twisted but I'm still concerned about what I would get in a claim.

I have been told by the insurance company that I need to mark the items that are high value in order to able to make a claim.

They will not be covered by the normal claim process if not mention seperately. However I get games all the time and constantly updated the list at the insurance company will likely increase the premium to sky high levels.

Has anyone tried specialist collector's insurance? Like the the ones for Stamps and Toy figures which there is already a large market for.

[Mandingo]

However I get games all the time and constantly updated the list at the insurance company will likely increase the premium to sky high levels.

Good point, and I think Gemini Phoenix was correct in saying that it's probably best to select and itemize what's most valuable in our collections:

-Even if you only insured a select minority of your collection, say items over £50, then that would at least be a little peace of mind that your rarer and more valuable games are insured for what they are worth, rather than the pittance that some copy of Shrek 2 for GameCube is worth...

[twistedsymphony]

That article is heartbreaking... this is a really good discussion though.

I consider my collection to be fairly small potatoes .... at least in terms of what would happen in a disaster I think there are other more valuable items I'd be more concerned about.

My car is heavily modified and I have special insurance on it to reflect those modifications, obviously my premium is higher as a result...

---------------

I know most of you aren't in the US but a quick Google search turned this up:
http://www.collectinsure.com/

[gurpswoo1]

I know most of you aren't in the US but a quick Google search turned this up:
http://www.collectinsure.com/
__________________


interesting, I just use the quotation system for a $10,000 value and fire and theft protection. Total premium is $61 a year. That's not bad.

know to find one in the uk.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

I have been told by the insurance company that I need to mark the items that are high value in order to able to make a claim.

They will not be covered by the normal claim process if not mention seperately. However I get games all the time and constantly updated the list at the insurance company will likely increase the premium to sky high levels.

That's all well and good for the small time collector, or for someone who only has a few dozen VGA graded games, but for someone like myself it is near impossible! I have at least 200 games in my collection which are worth £100+ with a good quarter to a third of my collection worth over £50 (At least!) - How do they expect me to mark each and every high value item? It becomes a chore in itself!


Has anyone tried specialist collector's insurance? Like the the ones for Stamps and Toy figures which there is already a large market for.

Is there such a thing? If so, then I would definitely consider it. After all, if such insurance exists for stamps and toys (Star Wars mint on their card I presume?), then there's no reason why it shouldn't also apply to games

I wonder - How do you insure a collection of stamps? Obviously if they burn in a fire, does the insurance company pay for you to obtain them all over again? Would you have to list each and every stamp you owned?

[twistedsymphony]

Is there such a thing? If so, then I would definitely consider it. After all, if such insurance exists for stamps and toys (Star Wars mint on their card I presume?), then there's no reason why it shouldn't also apply to games

I wonder - How do you insure a collection of stamps? Obviously if they burn in a fire, does the insurance company pay for you to obtain them all over again? Would you have to list each and every stamp you owned?

check the link I posted a few posts up... it's a US based collector's insurance and they even help you value your collection.

interesting, I just use the quotation system for a $10,000 value and fire and theft protection. Total premium is $61 a year. That's not bad.

know to find one in the uk.

I would contact them anyway... it's possible that since it's a non-standard type insurance they might be able to insure in other countries, or they might know of a similar business in the UK that they could refer you to.

[gurpswoo1]

I found a UK Collector's insurance site:

http://www.dovetailinsurance.co.uk/insurance/collection-insurance.htm

I think i might give them a call.

[twistedsymphony]

GREAT FIND!

if anyone calls either of these companies and gets their take on video games please post up about it...

I think the information from this thread might make a good sticky or main page article.

[gurpswoo1]

Ok I have just called them up and asked a few simple questions.

What type of insurance do you do?

Dovetail insurance do not do independent insurance for collectable items but they cover them on top of their normal house insurance. The reason for this is that the covering cost is likely less than £50 a year. The admin and paper work costs involved would not make it financially viable unless they had a huge turnover of new policies, that's not likely to happen in a niche market.

So you would need to take out new house insurance with them.

So what does it cover?

I told him I was a video game collector, the first thing I noticed was that he didn't laugh, snigger or make any sort of remark or sound. He was completely serious and understood how valuable the items were to us, he has seen every type of collectable including collectable underwear.

The policy is really designed for the collection as a whole, for example if there was a fire, theft or natural disaster. Accidental damaged is also covered but this would be for multiple or higher value items. This is because of the excess.

The access is usually £250, now this is a problem for claiming smaller value.

So in other words, if you do damaged an item then make sure it's either high in value or you damaged multiple items.

E.g. Say you had a VGA graded game worth £1000, you dropped it by mistake and there was a crack in the case.

As the value has dropped because the case is cracked, this is considered accidental damaged. They would cover the whole item minus the £250 excess.


How does a claim work and how do you establish the value.

Dovetail understood that keeping all the receipt is not going to be possible, they determine the value at the claim process, they ask an independent source for either verification or current market value. I informed him that you will be hard pressed to find someone who sell sealed games professionally for market value and the only source I could think of is VGA in the US for an estimate. He did say they would ask other collectors if all else failed.


What's the sort of house or content you deal with?
He said they would normally cover mid to high end houses with a minimum of £10,000 collection. Premiums are usually in the £500 pa mark.


Now it's important to consider that everyone can have a personalized policy with either more or less excess. It's down to your personal situation and type of policy required.


I will continue to research this as I'm interested in this.

Hope this helps answer some of the concerns of the insurance required.

Also for anyone that has not read the link above here it is, it important to know.

Collection Insurance in the UK: Important Information
It may be a particular trait of the British psyche but we like to collect "things" whether they be fine art, stamps, coins or the more obtuse and personal. Indeed, the type of collections we like to accumulate are as varied as the people who do the collecting. Here's some important information about collection insurance in the UK that you may want to note.

Why insure a collection, that has been painstakingly acquired over many years, under a general home contents insurance policy that gives scant regard to the individual needs of a specialized collection? Such policies are aimed at the mass market and do not adequately reflect the unique characteristics of a collection with tailored coverage such as antiques insurance or paintings insurance. I cannot imagine discussing the insurance of a collection such as militaria with a call centre. One mention of the word "gun", albeit decommissioned, is likely to send the person at the other end of the line diving for cover, metaphorically speaking. In such cases, specialist home insurance is urgently required.

Many collections reach a high value very quickly and thus automatically create a cover issue on a standard home contents insurance policy. Plus, such policies do not take into account the inherent risks of an individual collection. For example, the insurance of a collection of paintings should be underwritten differently from a collection of Steiff Teddy Bears. Insurance for collections of memorabilia should be considered differently from insurance for collections of coins.

Specialist high value home insurance agents and insurance brokers, the ones that you won't find on the Internet, understand the needs of collectors and will underwrite each collection on its own merits. It is likely that it will cost less to insure a collection with specialists because they know that an opportunistic thief is not likely to run off with a collection of railwayana when there is a plasma television to be had.

A specialist insurance agent also appreciates that the collection is likely to be very well looked after and well catalogued with a full inventory and valuation, even though it's unlikely that you'll be asked to give specifics on an individual piece unless it exceeds £15,000 in value. These agents also are flexible about additions and deletions because they know that collectors often buy and sell items with regularity. In short, specialist agents and brokers provide insurance for a collection in a bespoke manner.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Interesting stuff...

What type of insurance do you do?

Dovetail insurance do not do independent insurance for collectable items but they cover them on top of their normal house insurance. The reason for this is that the covering cost is likely less than £50 a year. The admin and paper work costs involved would not make it financially viable unless they had a huge turnover of new policies, that's not likely to happen in a niche market.

So you would need to take out new house insurance with them.

I can understand this. You wouldn't just insure one item in your entire house, no matter how valuable it is. You'd want to insure everything you have in your house first, and then add the collectible's on top of that as points of interest. It makes sense I suppose...


So what does it cover?

I told him I was a video game collector, the first thing I noticed was that he didn't laugh, snigger or make any sort of remark or sound. He was completely serious and understood how valuable the items were to us, he has seen every type of collectable including collectable underwear.

Now i'm quite liberal when it comes to other collector's, but collectible underwear? Seriously? I've heard some things in my time as a collector, but never heard of anyone collecting underwear! Lol.

I laugh, but that underwear collector may be reading this trying to understand why we would collect video games...


The policy is really designed for the collection as a whole, for example if there was a fire, theft or natural disaster. Accidental damaged is also covered but this would be for multiple or higher value items. This is because of the excess.

The access is usually £250, now this is a problem for claiming smaller value.

So in other words, if you do damaged an item then make sure it's either high in value or you damaged multiple items.

E.g. Say you had a VGA graded game worth £1000, you dropped it by mistake and there was a crack in the case.

As the value has dropped because the case is cracked, this is considered accidental damaged. They would cover the whole item minus the £250 excess.

Accidental damage isn't the major issue here. Most people would just write it off as an accident and move along with their lives. I know i've accidentally damaged one or two games in my time through careless handling, but at the end of the day it was my fault. I suppose it is different if you have young kids around and they're disobedient and touch things they're not supposed to, but generally speaking the major reasons for having insurance is to cover you if you're a victim of fire, flood, or theft I would think!

Plus, single items are much easier to protect, whereas an entire room of collectible games is much harder. You can perhaps try and rescue a few select items in a hurry, but it's much harder to rescue several thousand items


How does a claim work and how do you establish the value.

Dovetail understood that keeping all the receipt is not going to be possible, they determine the value at the claim process, they ask an independent source for either verification or current market value. I informed him that you will be hard pressed to find someone who sell sealed games professionally for market value and the only source I could think of is VGA in the US for an estimate. He did say they would ask other collectors if all else failed.

Keeping receipts is unrealistic to be honest. I try, but I would say only about a quarter of my collection I have kept the receipts for. Add to that the fact that a majority of items may have been bought on forums or eBay, or even traded with fellow collector's.

In our hobby, there aren't really any independant sources. It's not like dealing with antiques or gold - There aren't really any experts per se, only other collector's. Like you, I would have probably said the same thing. Hell, I AM the fricking expert, so I know how hard pressed you'd be to find another! Lol!

VGA is all well and good, but I doubt they would have the knowledge to be able to give values of every single game you may have owned. Add to that the fact that they probably wouldn't have the time or incentive to help you in these circumstances, and they're knowledge of PAL games may also be lacking compared to native US games

All the more reason why specialist collector's websites like CE.O and SGH are important, and one of the reasons why SGH exists! ;)


What's the sort of house or content you deal with?
He said they would normally cover mid to high end houses with a minimum of £10,000 collection. Premiums are usually in the £500 pa mark.

Well that's definitely me then! I would gladly pay £500pa to insure my collection. That's less than 1% of its value, so I think that is fair. However, this is provided they would pay out what I say my items are worth if anything happened to them.



For me, flooding is not such a problem as I live fairly high up above a valley. If we were to somehow get flooded, then it is more likely my house would collapse from subsidence.

As my house has a flat roof, wind damage and water leakage is a high priority for me. The reason our house has a flat roof is because the original roof was blown away in the great storm of 1987 (We weren't living here at the time), so obviously if that were to happen again... We don't get twisters here, but with the ever-changing climate, it may be a possibility in the future. Also, general wear and tear on the roof and rotting building materials could lead to water leaking through. Not very likely, but also a possibility

Fire is a high priority, although I would say a rare circumstance. However, all it would take is a misplaced cigarette or neglected candle...

I would say my number one concern though is theft. Obviously high profile collector's with high profile games of varying value and rarity are prime targets for theft, either organised or chancers. I am always paranoid about leaving the house unattened, and have various anti-intruder devices secured in the home, but that still isn't going to deter some individuals, and once it's out, it's lost forever. In a way, I think theft is worse, because you know your treasured collection is still out there somewhere...

[Gemini-Phoenix]

I found an interesting excerpt on that Dovetail website, and have highlighted a couple of paragraphs which I find very reassuring, and also the truth:

Insurance for a collection

Note: Dovetail Insurance Services Ltd are unable to obtain a quotation for a specific collection or single item as a "stand alone" policy but can usually accommodate such request as an extension to home contents cover.

One only has to watch an episode of the BBC's Antique Roadshow to learn that the British are a nation of collectors and that we are fascinated by unusual artefacts as well as the more traditional art and antique furniture.

The most enjoyable part of my job is speaking with potential clients and learning what their particular passion is. I do not always have an in depth knowledge about their particular penchant but their enthusiasm is often infectious and I invariable learn something new.

It is very evident from my discussions that whatever you collect, whether it be stamps, coins, memorabilia of a particular bent, ceramics, clocks (in fact the list is endless) finding the right insurance cover for your treasures, collected over many years, is not easy to find.

The standard home insurance policy advertised on the internet and television by the well known names are designed and marketed to the general public nationwide with a "one size fits all" approach. As soon as you ask them to cover a collection or something unusual you are usually met with a deathly silence on the end of the phone or even worse a non negotiable "no". In many ways it is understandable. Your possessions are unique and these insurers are not targeting you for your business.

Fortunately, the home insurance insurers with whom I have arrangements to obtain quotations, offer bespoke insurance solutions to suit your needs. They understand that rather than being a high risk you are probably the opposite. A collector takes great care of their possessions, it is often catalogued in great detail, and frequent small claims are rare occurrence.

Moreover, the High Net Worth Insurers do not impose restrictive conditions preventing you from enjoying your collection. They generally accept that you may have items on display, stored in unusual circumstances or at a different location or bought and sold on a regular basis.

Should you have a collection requiring insurance with a degree of flexibility or simply a single item that your current home insurance policy will not accommodate I would be delighted to discuss your needs with you. If nothing else I would enjoy learning about your particular passion.

[Mandingo]

I know most of you aren't in the US but a quick Google search turned this up:
http://www.collectinsure.com/

Thanks for that link! :D

[gurpswoo1]

If anyone else finds any information on these types of insurance please left us know,
doesn't have to be UK based. Anything related is useful.

I will continue to try to find some more information.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Perhaps this niche leaves an opening for a potential business venture? ;)

Such a service would be invaluable to many collector's of games and Dvd's, and you could provide a unique service where collector's can upload lists of every item they own along with pictures for insurance purposes, and add / remove them easily whenever an item is bought or sold, thus keeping the insurance policy up-to-date, whilst also keeping track of your collection at the same time!

Each item could be given a value, which would then be authenticated by an expert (Potential for a new career there), and you pay a percentage of every game listed for your insurance.


The only drawback with this I see is that someone shifty could easily manipulate this system by saying they own games which they don't, or by selling a particular valuable game or games and then claiming that they had been stolen or damaged...

[Mandingo]

The only drawback with this I see is that someone shifty could easily manipulate this system by saying they own games which they don't, or by selling a particular valuable game or games and then claiming that they had been stolen or damaged...

There's always the potential for fraud in any business.

[MrBubbles]

I have also been looking for an insurance for my collection, but it can be a real hassle.
Collections always change, value may increas rapidly because of a growing collection or items getting rare.
Most insurance companies over here don't know nothing about videogames, so for them it will be a big guess what the actual value is. I made an excel sheet with all of my purchases, but would that cover it? I don't have any receipts or whatsoever.

[gurpswoo1]

Insurance claims on collectables are made for value and the cost of replacement, not what the original price you purchased it for. Even if it's less or more.

Although this for the collectable insurance, normal insurance will either be very low or most likely nothing at all, as collectables are are covered.

[Mandingo]

Cost of replacement, yeah, that's how insurance functions in general.

[SquirrelRaper]

Guess, Ill bring back this one like gurps said haha.

Anyways, my insurance company(State Farm) covers my games. I have them insured around a 100k and then some more insurance for other belongings. I finally pulled my Excel file of my PS3 games off my old hdd today, so now it's time to do some catching up on it. >_> When I move into my new house soon, I'll have all my retro games put into a list as well. Plus tons of pictures lol. Gotta make sure I have enough insurance lol.

[gurpswoo1]

Do you know how the claim process works.

what is covered.

[vhal_x]

I have insurance up to £50,000 but not much idea how my collection would be covered... Think I may shop around for insurance once I move house (if it happens) xx

[gurpswoo1]

That is contents insurance but collectable items are not covered, it's in their small print. shifty companies.

[vhal_x]

I kinda guessed it wouldn't cover my collection properly, especially as I just went for the cheapest contents cover as I could when I first moved in :haha:

It's going up from next month though, so all the more reason to shop around and see which cover best protects my collection :) xx

[SquirrelRaper]

It's covered weather it's someone who robbed me or my house burns down and etc lol. My games is the only reason I got it in the first place lol.