Ouya: Day 1 - The Unboxing "Experience"

[flatout]

Everything I see or hear about the Ouya I wonder about the millions of dollars they they got over their projected goal that they just get to keep... amazing.


The reason I say this is becasue if you take all the things thy had to pay for and all the items they had promised they had to send they still had millions left over to pocket (if they wanted to).


I do not like Android based gaming, never have... the games may be getting better and better but they still cannot offer the experiences I am looking for.

[twistedsymphony]

Originally Posted by flatout

Everything I see or hear about the Ouya I wonder about the millions of dollars they they got over their projected goal that they just get to keep... amazing.

Not exactly... for all intents and purposes the kickstarter was just a pre-order program. the only difference is you were pre-ordering so far in advance that they had the money to actually start production.

I'm sure they made money, but not much more than if the kickstarter had never existed.

Originally Posted by flatout

I do not like Android based gaming, never have... the games may be getting better and better but they still cannot offer the experiences I am looking for.

That's rather closed minded don't you think? Based on my experience with the console over the last week it has the potential to offer the same experiences that you get on any other console or gaming device.

[flatout]

Originally Posted by Twistedsymphony

Not exactly... for all intents and purposes the kickstarter was just a pre-order program. the only difference is you were pre-ordering so far in advance that they had the money to actually start production.

I'm sure they made money, but not much more than if the kickstarter had never existed.

The kickstarter money was for much more then pre-orders. Their original projected goal had to include cost of the devices sure... but also R&D, development, salaries for all the employees and overhead. And I am sure they left a cushion as well... my point is after the goal amount all of those expenditures they factored in was just gravy after that. Not hard to figure out once you think of it and do the math.

Originally Posted by Twistedsymphony

That's rather closed minded don't you think? Based on my experience with the console over the last week it has the potential to offer the same experiences that you get on any other console or gaming device.

That is all good to say "potentially could offer"... my point is the same one you made just now (as of now it does not).

[twistedsymphony]

Originally Posted by flatout

The kickstarter money was for much more then pre-orders. Their original projected goal had to include cost of the devices sure... but also R&D, development, salaries for all the employees and overhead. And I am sure they left a cushion as well... my point is after the goal amount all of those expenditures they factored in was just gravy after that. Not hard to figure out once you think of it and do the math.

The R&D had pretty much already been done before the Kickstarter started. the Kickstarter "price" is exactly the same as the retail price. So aside from normal retail profits the only bonus they received was from backers who donated way above the $100 level.

It's not hard to figure out... lets look at the actual kickstarter numbers:
12 backers at $10,000
4 backers at $5,000
226 backers at $1,337
600 backers at $699
everything below this level is essentially at retail price.

now all of those levels come with a console + an extra controller so subtract $140 from the value of each one:
you end up with
$743,682

So their bonus was less than a million over what they would have made had they just gone straight retail. All things considered that's hardly what I would consider "gravy" when you take into account how much goes into developing a launching a console.

Originally Posted by flatout

That is all good to say "potentially could offer"... my point is the same one you made just now (as of now it does not).

If you haven't read the latest part of my review posted today, you should. Right now, today on the Ouya marketplace there is "ShadowGun" which is a 3rd person shooter similar to Gears of War, and there is also "Bard's Tale" which is an Action RPG similar to Fable... To me, those are the same kind of gaming experiences that you can get with a PS3 or Xbox 360. Honestly I was completely blown away with how much performance the Ouya actually has, and how many legit, fully thought-out games are already available. The only thing keeping the next Assassins Creed or Madden football off of the console is those publishers deciding whether or not to put in that effort to port their games, but from what I've seen so far the Ouya is certainly capable of supporting games like that. The only reason I say "potential" is because you haven't given me any indication as to how you define the "experiences [your] looking for".

Performance wise I'd place it squarely between the PS2 and PS3 generation... it's not as powerful as a PS3 or Xbox 360 but It's significantly more powerful than a PS2 or original Xbox, I'd even place it ahead of the Wii... probably comparable to a Wii U.

[SwiftDeath]

Twistedsymphony just wanted to say I really appreciate your thoughts on the Ouya

It certainly makes for an interesting read

Considering it's a $99 console, it's seems pretty good value for the money

If the controller lag wasn't present and bigger pubs become more active on it

I really think it could explode

[flatout]

You can;t take retail sale price to do that calculation... I say this as Kickstarter is basically a "give me a a free non-interest loan and I will re-pay you with a console I will make money on". Oh and know you helped us get our company going... but no profits or stock in the company will ever be yours for it. (this is how it fells to me anyways)

Anyways there was a couple million left over at least when they were done... you could argue that they put it right back into making things better and they may have. I am just saying it feels like cheating to me and many others. I am happy there is a kickstarter to get things people really want out there but it is a place that is and will continue to breed scams and greed.

I will say Ouya was a neat idea... but I also believe it is one that will die out very soon. Biggest issue (and why they require you card I assume) is pirating is rife on Android based devices... especially one that is made to be hacked. News on it almost ceased for awhile then they launched them and news perked for a second and now nothing again (but I don't look or listen for Ouya news).


On the second point I have had Shadow Gun on my iPhone for almost 2 years now if I remember correctly (well over a year at least) and I would say you could call it "similar to Gears". But honestly it is a far cry from a console game at the end of the day. It is a very basic, yes it is pretty for a iphone/android game... when I first saw it I was pretty impressed. But now that there are handhelds like the Vita where they can actually put a console experience on there... a game with solid graphics, gameplay, (and here is the kicker) and length. IMO the only mobile games that have done this so far (with length) are the light on graphics RPGs (ther are a couple exceptions but they usually sacrifice in one way or another). Shadow Gun really is a rare entity on the mobile market, others on that graphics level are touch based games like Infinite Blade (which I disliked with a passion for some reason... was Fruit Ninja with pretty graphics).

When the mobile arena makes something comparable to Vita's Uncharted Golden Abyss then I will take it seriously in the console space.

Again this is just my opinion.

[twistedsymphony]

Originally Posted by SwiftDeath

Twistedsymphony just wanted to say I really appreciate your thoughts on the Ouya

It certainly makes for an interesting read

Considering it's a $99 console, it's seems pretty good value for the money

If the controller lag wasn't present and bigger pubs become more active on it

I really think it could explode

Thanks, I would agree that that without the controller lag and support from bigger publishers it could be a serious competitor... It does have SOME big publisher support. Square Enix and Sega both have games on the system right now (Final Fantasy III HD and Sonic the Hedgehog 4) but I think they're waiting to see how many unit sell and how well those games sell before putting out anymore support.

Considering the controller lag issue I think if they had a few media apps on the console to compete with Roku and AppleTV it would be worth the $99 price tag. With the exception of Plex, there really isn't anything there for media yet, I know there are people working on it though and the console is certainly capable of handling HD media decoding.

Honestly I think the Oyua team should have just delayed launch... maybe sent out the kickstarter units but then delayed retail release until September or October... that would have avoided the whole backers getting their units after retail problem, and I think at that point most backers would have been using a "beta" product for a few months until they got the bugs worked out.

I keep a sticker on my desk that says "The upset over a missed deadline goes away much faster than the terrible taste of a bad product." People wont soon forget about the problems the Ouya had and has, it will likely haunt the console long after they're gone. But had they just delayed it until they were worked out people would have completely forgot about the delay as soon as it was over.

[comaamen86]

Originally Posted by Twistedsymphony

Not exactly... for all intents and purposes the kickstarter was just a pre-order program. the only difference is you were pre-ordering so far in advance that they had the money to actually start production.

I'm sure they made money, but not much more than if the kickstarter had never existed.




That's rather closed minded don't you think? Based on my experience with the console over the last week it has the potential to offer the same experiences that you get on any other console or gaming device.

candy crush etc is an android game sad to say i have prob spent more time on that than any other game this year

android works well it just has to have a game that hooks you in

i see anddroid failing if they and try and compete with big console titles scaled down

[twistedsymphony]

Originally Posted by flatout

You can;t take retail sale price to do that calculation... I say this as Kickstarter is basically a "give me a a free non-interest loan and I will re-pay you with a console I will make money on". Oh and know you helped us get our company going... but no profits or stock in the company will ever be yours for it. (this is how it fells to me anyways)

I think this is just a difference in ideals as to why someone should back kickstarter. IMO you can look at it two ways
1. you're making a DONATION to the project, you think they have a good idea and you want to GIVE them money to help them out.

2. you're making a very very early pre-order where you're exchanging goods for money just like you would at GameStop or Amazon.com when you pre-order something.

In the case of the Ouya kickstarter I gave them money for a console a few controllers and I received a console and a few controllers a year later. I'm completely fine with this situation. If they, or anyone else makes millions over their goal, then I say "Good for them". As long as everyone received the goods they were promised I honestly don't see any problem with it.

Originally Posted by flatout

I will say Ouya was a neat idea... but I also believe it is one that will die out very soon. Biggest issue (and why they require you card I assume) is pirating is rife on Android based devices... especially one that is made to be hacked. News on it almost ceased for awhile then they launched them and news perked for a second and now nothing again (but I don't look or listen for Ouya news).

Well, like any console it only makes the news when something newsworthy happened. The only things newsworthy to happen since the retail launch are new games getting released and I'm seeing a steady stream of reviews and news about those games from Kotaku and other publications, which I consider typical of any console release.

As for the credit card and hacking I don't see the correlation. The fact that I entered my credit car wouldn't in any way shape or form prevent me from pirating on the Ouya. Honestly I think it's entirely based on the fact that they didn't write the actual purchase code into the console and instead offload that duty to the individual app developers. It was essentially lazyness on Ouya's part because it would have required more development to write an as-needed payment processing mechanism.

Originally Posted by flatout

On the second point I have had Shadow Gun on my iPhone for almost 2 years now if I remember correctly (well over a year at least) and I would say you could call it "similar to Gears". But honestly it is a far cry from a console game at the end of the day. It is a very basic, yes it is pretty for a iphone/android game... when I first saw it I was pretty impressed. But now that there are handhelds like the Vita where they can actually put a console experience on there... a game with solid graphics, gameplay, (and here is the kicker) and length. IMO the only mobile games that have done this so far (with length) are the light on graphics RPGs (ther are a couple exceptions but they usually sacrifice in one way or another). Shadow Gun really is a rare entity on the mobile market, others on that graphics level are touch based games like Infinite Blade (which I disliked with a passion for some reason... was Fruit Ninja with pretty graphics).

When the mobile arena makes something comparable to Vita's Uncharted Golden Abyss then I will take it seriously in the console space.

Again this is just my opinion.

I didn't mention it in my review but the version of ShadowGun on the Ouya includes an expansion that actually doubles the length of the game. I do agree though that the game is more of a graphics tech demo than genuine competitor in the game space. Even still, you can't expect a $5 game on a shoestring budget to compete against a $60 game with a multi-million dollar budget.

One of the things that surprised me most about the Ouya is that there are quite a number of "long" games available, meaning stuff that caters to playing more than a few minutes at a time. There are at least a dozen good narrative driven games that you can sit and play for hours at a time.


The biggest issue is that none of them are "exclusive". Though the reason for that is mostly because the Dev kits only went out earlier this year, you can't expect the next Skyrim to get developed inside of a couple months, and if any games like that were already underdevelopment for Android, I can't imagine any dev team would be willing to put all their effort into a completely unproven platform.

It's a little different when 3rd parties makes launch titles like that for Sony or MS because even though it's a new console, it's got a history and proven sales record, something that the Ouya doesn't have yet. It will be a while until the console "proves itself" enough for titles like that to find their way to it. Until then it's, at best going primarily to receive ports from iOS, XLBA, PSN and indie PC releases... but I guess that's EXACTLY what I expected out of it from the start, a consolidated platform for small and indie devs to use that let me enjoy their games on my TV instead of squinting at my phone or hunched over a keyboard in my office.


I also don't understand the absolute vitriol that a lot of hardcore gamers are throwing at the device... yeah they screwed up the launch and there are a lot of things that still need work but you'd swear the way people are attacking it that the Ouya team was somehow responsible for genocide or child slave labor or something.

[flatout]

Originally Posted by Twistedsymphony

Not exactly... for all intents and purposes the kickstarter was just a pre-order program. the only difference is you were pre-ordering so far in advance that they had the money to actually start production.

I forgot to point out that Kickstarter is NOT a pre-order program. The Person how gets the money does not legally have to give you anything. They are no bound in any way except morally.

Originally Posted by Twistedsymphony

I think this is just a difference in ideals as to why someone should back kickstarter. IMO you can look at it two ways
1. you're making a DONATION to the project, you think they have a good idea and you want to GIVE them money to help them out.

2. you're making a very very early pre-order where you're exchanging goods for money just like you would at GameStop or Amazon.com when you pre-order something.

In the case of the Ouya kickstarter I gave them money for a console a few controllers and I received a console and a few controllers a year later. I'm completely fine with this situation. If they, or anyone else makes millions over their goal, then I say "Good for them". As long as everyone received the goods they were promised I honestly don't see any problem with it.



Well, like any console it only makes the news when something newsworthy happened. The only things newsworthy to happen since the retail launch are new games getting released and I'm seeing a steady stream of reviews and news about those games from Kotaku and other publications, which I consider typical of any console release.

As for the credit card and hacking I don't see the correlation. The fact that I entered my credit car wouldn't in any way shape or form prevent me from pirating on the Ouya. Honestly I think it's entirely based on the fact that they didn't write the actual purchase code into the console and instead offload that duty to the individual app developers. It was essentially lazyness on Ouya's part because it would have required more development to write an as-needed payment processing mechanism.




I didn't mention it in my review but the version of ShadowGun on the Ouya includes an expansion that actually doubles the length of the game. I do agree though that the game is more of a graphics tech demo than genuine competitor in the game space. Even still, you can't expect a $5 game on a shoestring budget to compete against a $60 game with a multi-million dollar budget.

One of the things that surprised me most about the Ouya is that there are quite a number of "long" games available, meaning stuff that caters to playing more than a few minutes at a time. There are at least a dozen good narrative driven games that you can sit and play for hours at a time.


The biggest issue is that none of them are "exclusive". Though the reason for that is mostly because the Dev kits only went out earlier this year, you can't expect the next Skyrim to get developed inside of a couple months, and if any games like that were already underdevelopment for Android, I can't imagine any dev team would be willing to put all their effort into a completely unproven platform.

It's a little different when 3rd parties makes launch titles like that for Sony or MS because even though it's a new console, it's got a history and proven sales record, something that the Ouya doesn't have yet. It will be a while until the console "proves itself" enough for titles like that to find their way to it. Until then it's, at best going primarily to receive ports from iOS, XLBA, PSN and indie PC releases... but I guess that's EXACTLY what I expected out of it from the start, a consolidated platform for small and indie devs to use that let me enjoy their games on my TV instead of squinting at my phone or hunched over a keyboard in my office.


I also don't understand the absolute vitriol that a lot of hardcore gamers are throwing at the device... yeah they screwed up the launch and there are a lot of things that still need work but you'd swear the way people are attacking it that the Ouya team was somehow responsible for genocide or child slave labor or something.

I agree with almost everything you said (except the top part about it being a pre-order... not legally). It even states clearly that you are "giving" your money to them, not buying a product.

And the credit card thing, statics show the people with the card in place and ready to buy are more likely to buy items. But as far as hacking goes it might not deter anyone who was planning on it anyhow. I personally have no issues with the Ouya team... I bet they are trying as hard as they can and giving as much as they can.

The real thing I am concerned about is they way it got started (not the team or console for that matter), so basically my beef (if any) is with Kickstarter.

My opinion on the console is it will fade out... just what I think will happen. It will fade or find a niche audience.