Framing lithographs

[Dreamcazman]

I'm on the hunt for a suitable frame for my Skyrim lithograph, it's 24x36 so it's not exactly small. I don't want to buy a 'cheap' frame as I want to make sure the lithograph is well protected so I'm looking into custom framing.

Frist off, the picture won't be hanging in direct sunlight so I don't think I need to go to the expense of UV glass, but is normal glass ok, or should I go for perspex (plexi glass)?

Also from what I've read, it's best to have a mat around the edge so the litho doesn't actually come in contact with the glass, but AFAIK that involves sticking it to the backing board, something I don't really want to do if I ever want to remove it. :huh:

Anyone knowledgeable in this area?

[i and i]

will follow this thread with great interest. Have more or less the same questions.

[HIPPEEDUDE]

I'm on the hunt for a suitable frame for my Skyrim lithograph, it's 24x36 so it's not exactly small. I don't want to buy a 'cheap' frame as I want to make sure the lithograph is well protected so I'm looking into custom framing.

Frist off, the picture won't be hanging in direct sunlight so I don't think I need to go to the expense of UV glass, but is normal glass ok, or should I go for perspex (plexi glass)?

Also from what I've read, it's best to have a mat around the edge so the litho doesn't actually come in contact with the glass, but AFAIK that involves sticking it to the backing board, something I don't really want to do if I ever want to remove it. :huh:

Anyone knowledgeable in this area?

This is a real easy answer. Take it in to get professionally framed & be done with it. You may not need UV glass now but think of the future,you dont want to have go through the hassle of re-framing it when you decide you want to hang it somewhere else where there is sunlight. I have looked around & theres not many ready made frames with UV glass,so best bet is professional job. UV glass is exspensive but worth it for piece of mind. Try ringing a few local places,specify what you want & see what prices you get. With UV glass most places have to buy a certain size or amount,so there are times when a place may have left overs from another job & give you a better price. As example original cost for two litho with UV glass to be framed $400,because they had leftover UV glass quote came down to $190.Admittingly the lithos i have already have a backing board but this wont cost much to have done right wen getting framed right. Biggest cost as always is simply decent UV glass

[thefunk007]

This is a real easy answer. Take it in to get professionally framed & be done with it. You may not need UV glass now but think of the future,you dont want to have go through the hassle of re-framing it when you decide you want to hang it somewhere else where there is sunlight. I have looked around & theres not many ready made frames with UV glass,so best bet is professional job. UV glass is exspensive but worth it for piece of mind. Try ringing a few local places,specify what you want & see what prices you get. With UV glass most places have to buy a certain size or amount,so there are times when a place may have left overs from another job & give you a better price. As example original cost for two litho with UV glass to be framed $400,because they had leftover UV glass quote came down to $190.Admittingly the lithos i have already have a backing board but this wont cost much to have done right wen getting framed right. Biggest cost as always is simply decent UV glass

Just use a UV filter screen over your actual windows - I have a museum grade and is significantly cheaper than UV protection glass + it also protects all my games from sunlight and fading.

[rasmusvn]

You can do two things that will preserve them.

1. Traditional framing
2. Mount them on dibond with a finish

- A mat is important, direct contack between artwork and glass is bad. This especially applies to glossy works.
- Acid-free materials all they way. Acid-free isn't just acid-free.
- Glass is heavy, epsecially at the size of the Skyrim litho.
- Choosing a white mat for a litho isn't enough, as white isn't just white.
- The process should be reversible, meaning you can get the litho out of the frame without any damage.

It is possible to use a mat without permanently fixing the artwork to a backing board. It can be done with tape or "small corners".

Museum glass has these benefits:

- Low reflection
- Transparency
- UV-protection
- Authentic color rendering

Personally I prefer Dibond with acryllic glass because it completely seals the artwork. In the past I've had bad experiences with framers who left dust under the glass, "gaping" mats etc. And these were all professional...

Traditional framing
http://share.xboxlife.dk/file/zjjhmjayzda3ndu3mzrhnjeynda3nta4m2rhodc1zje.jpg

Dibond with a finish
http://share.xboxlife.dk/file/mjg4nza1mgq3zjiyy2vhywq2zjk3njljytg4owewmmi.jpg

[toxicatom5]

All in all, if you want to save yourself time and hassle a frame shop is the way to go, and I think others above have made solid suggestions for how to approach it.

If you're trying to save money, some shops sell lengths of framing pieces where you choose what you need, then you buy corner brackets and assemble yourself. It is less expensive than buying a custom frame, but you don't get many options for the style/color of the frame (pretty much just black, silver, brown, and maybe white -- it's been a number of years since I've looked at them). You can then have a framing shop cut the mat for you, which is pretty inexpensive (plus it will turn out better than trying to do it yourself because most use very precise computerized cutters now). Use archival safe tape to affix your pieces to the matting. With regard to glass, even if it is not in direct sunlight your art is still going to fade. There should be some type of uv barrier between the sun and your art, whether you do that with screens (as mentioned above) or with glass...

The dibond route is awesome too, but I don't know what that would cost to send out and have done, might not be a low cost solution. Rasmusvn can you give an idea on this?

[rasmusvn]

I've been qouted a price of EUR 85 for 18x24. I'm not sure whether this is the general price.

Another option is dibond + gloss finish. Need I say more that it involves pouring epoxy resin and a blow torch :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUboGu2WiQ0

Notice that not all paper is suited for this due to the use of whiteners, inks used etc.

I forgot to mention that it is possible to frame without a mat and stille preserve the print. This is done by placing spacers along the edge of the print so it doesn't touch the glass.

[toxicatom5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUboGu2WiQ0


lol! Eventhough I've seen the results and know that it is a great way to display a print, it seems insane to subject a print to this process once you see it.

[HIPPEEDUDE]

Geez,if i spent a fair chunk of change on a picture i wouldnt want that dibond method. If anything goes wrong your screwed,especially if you cant replace the print. Maybe this would be okay for some things but not for a litho thats for example only 100 ever made,not worth the risk. Besides,it may even possibly de-value the litho by doing it this way,there will be some purists that wont even touch it afterwards.

[vhal_x]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't do dibond. Maybe for the Cook and Becker prints (that is what they're called, isn't it? The Mirror's Edge/Mass Effect ones, etc?) since you can choose to have them like that from the start, so if they went wrong, I assume they would replace it there and then, instead of sending you a fucked up one. But even at that, I'd probably choose a different method, so it isn't permanently like that.

Does anyone know... can dibond crack? For example, if during a house move, you dropped it. Could it crack?

If so, then that's a definite no-no for me (since it'd ruin the print inside) xx

[rasmusvn]

Geez,if i spent a fair chunk of change on a picture i wouldnt want that dibond method. If anything goes wrong your screwed,especially if you cant replace the print. Maybe this would be okay for some things but not for a litho thats for example only 100 ever made,not worth the risk. Besides,it may even possibly de-value the litho by doing it this way,there will be some purists that wont even touch it afterwards.

I'll have the Liara Dark Horse litho framed this way (not the SDCC one). It will however be framed using acryllic glass because the quality of the paper isn't as important using this method.

There's only a risk if they screw it up, so you have to find the right people for the job. I do however see your point regarding purists.

Dibond is the backing, it's a composite made of aluminium and plastic so it's very study. You can repair scratches in liquid gloss by reheating it, although I wouldn't attempt that myself.

And just for reference: "The Diasec prints are used by some photographers to present their work. Andreas Gursky mounted "99 Cent II Diptychon", the most expensive photograph ever, on acrylic glass, probably with the Diasec process."

[Maarten Brands]

Some good comments here regarding framing. Just to chip in.

The most important factor that determines archival quality of the print is the paper & inks used. Glass & framing is just extra protection.

Most game lithos we at C&B have seen are really offset prints in the CMYK spectrum not made using archival inks (which is a bit of a misnomer anyway as 'archival' is bandied around a lot and is not a protected term or anything so it can mean a lot of different things). A lot of the lithos are also on paper that contain whiteners and other acids which impacts durability.

So even if you UV coating afterwards or use UV glass I would still be careful exposing these prints to too much sunlight as it is anyones guess how long these lithos stay pristine and when they start to fade. It can be anything between 2 years or a 100.

- UV glass or plexiglass is defnititely preferable, also has better light refraction and more accurate color representation. And saves in weight :), and if you drop the artwork normal glass can break an damage your print. Acrylic glass or plexiglas is more resistant.
- You can frame using a matte without a permanent fixture to a backboard. A nice option imo.
- A Dibond mount with Diasec (which is the front mounting glue) and acrylic glass is also very nice. And a standard for most museums who collect contemporary photography etc. What is difficult though is that ideally you want to test with a bit of the paper and ink before you undertake this process.
- In terms of mounting, framing etc. there a so many options now and most of them are great. Ideally you want a recommendation from the artist that made the work (something that we're adding to C&B)
- If you don't know anything about the paper and inks your safest bet is traditional frame + matte with non-permanent fixture and UV glass.

P.S. The Dibond plate is almost impossible to crack. The worst that can happen is that it would chip on a corner if you drop it down the stairs. Same goes for a tradition frame of course so just don't do that :)

[Molasar]

I have no idea what Dibond and stuff is. I just bought one of the Fallout Litho's and i plan to hang it in my gaming room where no sun light will touch it. I only planned on spending around 40 or 50 bucks for frame from like hobby lobby or target/walmart if i can find a real nice one thats not exepensive. The litho was only 40. I never plan to resell, i just love fallout.

Is there really that much to framing that you go to special places to have them frame it for you? Thats gotta be expensive! Im new to this!

[MortalMonday]

I'll have the Liara Dark Horse litho framed this way (not the SDCC one). It will however be framed using acryllic glass because the quality of the paper isn't as important using this method.

There's only a risk if they screw it up, so you have to find the right people for the job. I do however see your point regarding purists.

Dibond is the backing, it's a composite made of aluminium and plastic so it's very study. You can repair scratches in liquid gloss by reheating it, although I wouldn't attempt that myself.

And just for reference: "The Diasec prints are used by some photographers to present their work. Andreas Gursky mounted "99 Cent II Diptychon", the most expensive photograph ever, on acrylic glass, probably with the Diasec process."

You have a Dark Horse Liara litho? If so, you're one of only 3 or 4 people that I know of that have it. I have one too. :D

And hats off to you for having it mounted using this Dibond method. Very courageous move indeed. I know I could never bring myself to have mine perma-mounted.

[Dreamcazman]

Thanks for all the help so far, I might go into a framing shop once I get the litho and see what they can do for me. I've looked around and haven't been able to find a premade 24x36 frame so I'll probably have to get one custom made, but I can't afford to go over the top. In reality though we are only framing a $50 litho, not some priceless Picasso. ;)

I've got a 18x24 frame here I bought from Target which I'll be using for one of my Dishonored lithos, very nice frame and only cost something like $40 on special.

I've never heard of Dibond either, we probably don't have it here in Australia. :think:

[MortalMonday]

I think I paid about $380 USD to have my "The Team" lithograph custom framed; and I believe that one is the same in size to this new Skyrim litho. So yeah, custom framing is not cheap at all.

[Maarten Brands]

You can have your art Dibond mounted anywhere in the world. Quite a common thing now but it is indeed a permanent fixture.

If you use a standard size frame you can always see if you can make it fit using a matte.

[Dreamcazman]

Just an update, I bit the bullet and took my Skyrim litho in to get professionally framed this morning. I went and spoke to a few places and most were basically the same price and one other place was nearly twice the price! :wtf:

I decided to go with the first guy I spoke with because we seemed to get on the best, was friendly and very professional - it's always best to stick with your gut feeling, so they say.

Anyway, for $250 I picked awesome frame timber and went with standard glass as opposed to UV, I just couldn't afford spending an extra $100 or thereabouts. I'm sure this thing will look amazing once I get it back.

Even the guy in the shop really digged the litho when I showed it to him. :)

[Mancoon]

Since we are talking about framing what would you guys suggest for one of the large cooks and Becker bioshock prints. I have never tackled something so large. With a piece being that rare it kind of warrants the cost of getting it done right. What are you guys who purchased one plan on doing? Any advice.

[toxicatom5]

My recommendation, particularly if you're getting the large size, is to go with the dibond with liquid gloss or acrylic glass (probably best to ask C&B to make the recommendation on which because one might be better suited for the piece than the other). You're going to spend a small fortune on framing anyway considering that it is HUGE. It's a unique way to do it, the art looks fantastic (better than it would behind glass in my opinion), and I highly doubt you would regret your decision. To each their own, but those are my thoughts.

[Mancoon]

Yeah the shipping to the states is the scary part if I have them framed it, it's 30 dollars shipping rolled a6 foot frame will cost a fortune, but I'm waiting for maarten to let me know what framing will cost, more than likely will have to do something local, Joann fabrics does nice custom framing around me. Btw does dibond mean you can't ever open it, if so I worry about value getting hurt. Also I think I read that if you choose it framed you only get it signed twice rather than 3 times. I would like all three sigs. Let's you know it's a for real piece if ken has to sign it 3 times, kind of cool. Front, back, and certificate get signed. I think if you frame from them the front won't be signed, but I could be wrong

[toxicatom5]

Yeah the shipping to the states is the scary part if I have them framed it, it's 30 dollars shipping rolled a6 foot frame will cost a fortune, but I'm waiting for maarten to let me know what framing will cost, more than likely will have to do something local, Joann fabrics does nice custom framing around me. Btw does dibond mean you can't ever open it, if so I worry about value getting hurt. Also I think I read that if you choose it framed you only get it signed twice rather than 3 times. I would like all three sigs. Let's you know it's a for real piece if ken has to sign it 3 times, kind of cool. Front, back, and certificate get signed. I think if you frame from them the front won't be signed, but I could be wrong

They are pouring a liquid over the surface of the print to complete the process, so it's not reversible. I highly doubt the value would be lessened though, just my personal opinion.

You are right that you only get 2 signatures if you go that route, but as far as authenticity is concerned, I think the dual signatures on the back should be enough for anyone to recognize the legitimacy of the print. And the signature on the front would be covered by a frame anyway.

I'm not trying to convince you to go one way or another (although reading my comments back it sounds like I am). Just throwing out what I see as the "pros" of going this route versus framing.

[Mancoon]

No, I appreciate it I wanted some opinions as I'm kind of clueless as this picture is huge. I do like looking at the signed front of art works that I collect though. So I probably would take have it framed since two sigs is confirmed. Thank you for your input on the matter

[LowlyAssassin]

Shouldn't this be in general collecting chat too?

[amb6883]

DO NOT DRYMOUNT!!!!! Unless you do not care about the lithograph's value.

[LowlyAssassin]

DO NOT DRYMOUNT!!!!! Unless you do not care about the lithograph's value.

And what's a dry mount?

[amb6883]

And what's a dry mount?

Using an adhesive to mount the print to the backing.

[amb6883]

Also, most framers will dry mount your prints if you do not tell them not to and just drop the print off. You need to make sure they are only going to do conservation framing with archival materials. I usually use acid free photo corners to mount my prints.

[Dreamcazman]

My framer said the only way to keep it off the glass (using spacers) was to stick it to a backing board.

Is there any other way around it?

[rasmusvn]

My framer said the only way to keep it off the glass (using spacers) was to stick it to a backing board.

Is there any other way around it?

A mat (passepartout) along with those corners mentioned (I believe archical acid-free tape could work too? I might be wrong).

For those wondering about photo corners: http://www.dickblick.com/products/lineco-archival-mounting-corners/

The framers I know don't know what they are :banghead:

[amb6883]

I suggest going to expressobeans.com for questions about framing, but a general rule when getting anything done to your print is to talk your framer and make sure that it is 100% reversible. If it is not (and even most "archival tapes" are not) do not l let them put it on your print. And for the love of god do not let them glue your print to the backing it will be fine with just the spacers and backing if you not using a mat.

[Dreamcazman]

I suggest going to expressobeans.com for questions about framing, but a general rule when getting anything done to your print is to talk your framer and make sure that it is 100% reversible. If it is not (and even most "archival tapes" are not) do not l let them put it on your print. And for the love of god do not let them glue your print to the backing it will be fine with just the spacers and backing if you not using a mat.
Thanks, I had a bit of a read on the expressobeans site and I'll be ringing my framer tomorrow to discuss different options.

I won't be using a mat because I don't think the Skyrim litho really needs it. If the print is not stuck to the backing board, won't it warp and flex between the backing board and the glass?

[amb6883]

I have framed quite a few of prints and never noticed any waves or bends on any of my prints that are printed on quality paper. The 100lb paper that Treehouse uses will be fine without dry mounting. I think that most framers do not deal with limited edition prints and are instead used to framing some kids finger paintings done on shit paper. Resale value is of little concern to them so they think dry mounting is necessary, but it makes the prints worthless.

[Dreamcazman]

So basically I can just get him to do everything else as normal just not stick the print to the board and all will be fine? He showed me the spacers that will be used, they looked like black squarish rods.

Forgive me, I'm still a bit of a noob when it comes to framing and you sound like you know what you're talking about. ;)

[amb6883]

So basically I can just get him to do everything else as normal just not stick the print to the board and all will be fine? He showed me the spacers that will be used, they looked like black squarish rods.

Forgive me, I'm still a bit of a noob when it comes to framing and you sound like you know what you're talking about. ;)

Yes.

I buy acid free spacers from my local Michael's for around $2.50 for a three foot section. I have a few pieces I am framing w/o mats at the moment (while not video game art - mark englert's django and battle of blackwater).

[Dreamcazman]

Thanks again, just another question, instead of having the print 'float' in the frame, do you recommend using hinging tape or mounting corners or even some other way to keep the print in place?

I'm just concerned that due to it's size something might go awry.

[Dreamcazman]

I got everything sorted with the framer, he was very understanding. :)

I opted to get a thin mat around the image to assist in stabilisation and do away with the spacer bars and make the frame larger so very little of the actual image is covered. It won't cost me any extra and this way it can be totally reversible. :banana:

Thank you everyone for helping me with this to avoid getting my lithograph ruined.

[rasmusvn]

I got everything sorted with the framer, he was very understanding. :)

I opted to get a thin mat around the image to assist in stabilisation and do away with the spacer bars and make the frame larger so very little of the actual image is covered. It won't cost me any extra and this way it can be totally reversible. :banana:

Thank you everyone for helping me with this to avoid getting my lithograph ruined.

Talking about ruining things...

I remember one particularly horrifying case where the framer decided to cut the white borders (incl. sig) off the lithographs.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/130/index/4812539/10#6996564

At any rate, I know that she cut off the signatures parts so that both images would have equal borders. It gives them a better visual representation when together, and doesn't require enormously large frames. Though, she could have asked me about my opinion before putting a knife in them.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/130/index/4812539/11#7080462

[Dreamcazman]

Got my lithograph back from the framer today. I'm amazed at the awesome job he did with it. Early birthday present to myself - I'm very happy. :)

http://users.on.net/~ckpichler/Skyrimlitho.jpg