Do not support the vga!

[LonestarGoner]

Let me start by saying that I have done and still do professional video game appraisal. I have a degree in history and have knowledge and skill in museum practices - preservation, inspection, repair and reconstruction, etc. I detest the (so-called) Video Game Authority! As a collector and appraiser, they are the worst charlatans in the game collecting community. If you keep collector pieces, do not use them for appraisal. Here is why:

1. No list of qualifications. True, there is no formally recognized body that certifies appraisers. VGA, however, does not list a SINGLE credential on its website - they only list "years of experience". No degrees, no affiliations with appraisal societies (of which there are MANY reputable), nothing.

2. Everything is done in secret. This is claimed to be for safety and security, but that's bunk. If that we're the case, all appraisals would be done secretly - not, for example, on television like the Antiques Roadshow. The appraisers name and business is always listed on the show, so if you were curious you could just look it up. Not true for the VGA - no names or locations.

3. No external observation. All grade scales, all packaging, all oversight (if any) is done in-house. No one to verify if they are legit, which is a HUGE red-flag and basically admittance they are not. Reputable archival houses (museums, antique auction houses, etc.) will allow others from time to time to look over their work, as a way to say to the public "We are legitimate."

I could go on for a long time, but let me say this - if you are a collector and want your collection or individual pieces appraised, do not use the VGA! Game appraisal is currently a small (but growing) field, and it may take work to find a legitimate appraiser, but for the sake of your collection and your wallet, don't use con artists. Support educated and experienced appraisers. Thanks for letting me rant.

[Twisted]

but VGA appears to be on the forefront and very popular..i' am ignorant when it comes to this field..but whenever i hear about video game grading etc...always hear VGA..NOTHING else i have ever heard of...and if you look at the case, the hologram sticker..the wrappings etc..appears to be quality work....can you list some legitamate alternates with their websites?..

[SwiftDeath]

Interesting...

I'm not really looking to get any of my CE's praised any time soon but I'm still intrigued by this.

I agree that I've always found it shady that there is just VGA. No other organization to my knowledge to compare your VGA graded game with I.E. no means by which to get a 2nd opinion

VGA is in fact a part of a larger conglomerate that offer grading services for a variety of collectibles and memorabilia. Every time they open a new grading authority, it just makes me think they are solely in it for money.

Regardless, I am more curious to hear what alternatives you would suggest

Are there any small ragtag bands of VG appraisers worth mentioning?

[Madigan]

I agree with the OP.

It's just a placebo effect for idiots who wants a random number in there nothing more (graded by randoms in a secret location...). I often see guys grading cracked, dented or damaged box/cases on ebay, just to increase the "value" :shrug:

VGA is aimed towards resellers not video game collectors.

[LonestarGoner]

Unfortunately, there is no current group that rivals the name recognition of VGA - which is truly a shame, as actually the VGA is NOT an actual appraisal group. Appraisal attaches not only a condition (mint, near-mint, etc.) but also a monetary value, not just an arbitrary (and completely self-designed) grading scale. VGA has a great scam. The boxes, the labels, the numeric designation of quality, all that, combine to make it look like it is legit. It's all a smoke-screen.

As for "ragtag bands of VG appraisers" (I do enjoy the phrase) there are no major groups that I know of. Video games are a different breed. Few other things have become so highly collectible in such a short time, so an appraisal society specifically for video games hasn't yet come about. Obviously, profiteers like VGA are making a killing in the vacuum. This will most likely begin as "parlor shops" - trained appraisers building a forum in small businesses, establishing a system of universal ethics in the growing. As for alternatives? Right now, keep your stuff in good shape. An actual society will come about soon enough. I myself have been working on this for some time, and I'm glad there is some interest out there.

[NaughtyDogJames]

Hmmm. I agree with the grading however they are good for preservation.

[Johnny]

I could do the same in my house for a fraction of the price they ask.
Oh and i would never send my rare and valuable games to some random place to be praised.

[LonestarGoner]

I'm assuming you mean the preservation, Johnny. Yes, as they only grade and box in wrapper games, it can be done easily and cheaply at home. Preserving open and used games is another matter, requiring a bit more finesse, and if, for example you had an open and boxed game like Final Fantasy/Dragon Warrior/Super Metroid/etc. you wanted preserved, that would require care. These games used coated cardboard for their boxes and making sure they are as moisture-free as possible is critical.

If you do get a game appraised, remember this: a legitimate appraiser will NEVER demand secrecy. A game appraisal can take some time (especially if you're having it tested to see if it works), but an honest person will always be willing to be observed.

If anyone were to want a game appraised or to learn how to be an appraiser, I would be more than happy to help. This site, in truth, is a great place to build a legit society of game appraisers, with the huge array of information and passion already present.

[richy rude]

The whole issue regarding game grading annoys me and is ultimately flawed. Depending on who 'grades' your game you could see a big increase or decrease in value.
But not only that, who's to say what the actual contents are like inside the sealed game??? I've bought brand new sealed games before (but i should just clarify NOT VGA graded) and the instruction manual had been creased. This has been on sealed xbox games with the xbox certificate of authenticity still intact. And I've had this before on retro games like on the nintendo 64. I know video game retailers can reseal games but these were brand new (And you can tell if a box has been opened before as the flush fit isnt the same and usually has a small crease due to being opened already).

Anyway I'm talking too much lol. But seriously I like the idea but it's ultimately flawed as you're paying a huge premium for something that you don't know what you're going to get inside. Like a box of chocolates really.... expensive chocolates at that :think:

[Vlad]

Y'know, we could probably do it pretty well as a community - it might work a bit like the 'What's the value of' thread, maybe a new subforum.

We're all of different regions and backgrounds so it would be a good mix of opinions and we're all big collectors, so we'd know what to look for and values and I imagine quite a few of us are into comics, you could use the same kind of system as them.

The trouble would be that we'd have to do it from pictures, videos and detailed descriptions so it would be more for a personal thing rather than having a label to use as a sale tool, no matter how meaningless that is.

Of course, if it really took off and you could make money for the site and possibly even a commission thing if it became massive folk could send stuff to an approved representative for a certain region then you could send it back boxed with a more official grading and with a bigger charge.
That brings up the bigger question of how to pick representatives but I'm just thinking out loud and just now the community is that nice size where everybody I've come across so far is friendly and it's a really nice atmosphere so I don't know if it would be a terribly huge issue now rather than if we had tons of folk that were all isolated from one another.

[mosavon]

The whole issue regarding game grading annoys me and is ultimately flawed. Depending on who 'grades' your game you could see a big increase or decrease in value.
But not only that, who's to say what the actual contents are like inside the sealed game??? I've bought brand new sealed games before (but i should just clarify NOT VGA graded) and the instruction manual had been creased. This has been on sealed xbox games with the xbox certificate of authenticity still intact. And I've had this before on retro games like on the nintendo 64. I know video game retailers can reseal games but these were brand new (And you can tell if a box has been opened before as the flush fit isnt the same and usually has a small crease due to being opened already).

Anyway I'm talking too much lol. But seriously I like the idea but it's ultimately flawed as you're paying a huge premium for something that you don't know what you're going to get inside. Like a box of chocolates really.... expensive chocolates at that :think:
Why does it matter about the inner contents? Its not like anyone buying a VGA graded game has any intention of opening it.

I understand why people buy graded games, but personally its not really something for me.

[SwiftDeath]

Why does it matter about the inner contents? Its not like anyone buying a VGA graded game has any intention of opening it.

I understand why people buy graded games, but personally its not really something for me.

Only matters if someone like you goes crazy and actually opens their collection :)

I would agree that 99% of people that are willing to pay the kind of prices VGA graded games bring will never ever think of opening them.

On the other hand, I remember reading about a Nintendo collector who had to sell their sealed NES games, I think it was NES, and did so locally to some rich guy. It was probably like a 1000 USD sale or something for maybe 10 games??? I don't remember the numbers so well but anyways rich guy was buying the games for his 9 - 10 year old son who he brought with him. Rich guy pays for the games and then hands 10 sealed games to son. Son proceeds to open every single game in front of collector, collector proceeds to lose his mind....:nosleep:

[geralds]

Only matters if someone like you goes crazy and actually opens their collection :)

I would agree that 99% of people that are willing to pay the kind of prices VGA graded games bring will never ever think of opening them.

On the other hand, I remember reading about a Nintendo collector who had to sell their sealed NES games, I think it was NES, and did so locally to some rich guy. It was probably like a 1000 USD sale or something for maybe 10 games??? I don't remember the numbers so well but anyways rich guy was buying the games for his 9 - 10 year old son who he brought with him. Rich guy pays for the games and then hands 10 sealed games to son. Son proceeds to open every single game in front of collector, collector proceeds to lose his mind....:nosleep:

Good games are ment to be played anyway. I do see why people collect sealed games but it just seems so freeking silly to me the games are ment to be played so why not leave it at that.

[Madigan]

On the other hand, I remember reading about a Nintendo collector who had to sell their sealed NES games, I think it was NES, and did so locally to some rich guy. It was probably like a 1000 USD sale or something for maybe 10 games??? I don't remember the numbers so well but anyways rich guy was buying the games for his 9 - 10 year old son who he brought with him. Rich guy pays for the games and then hands 10 sealed games to son. Son proceeds to open every single game in front of collector, collector proceeds to lose his mind....:nosleep:

https://i.minus.com/iTIoWMbYi7Gxz.gif

Good games are ment to be played anyway. I do see why people collect sealed games but it just seems so freeking silly to me the games are ment to be played so why not leave it at that.

That's why you buy 1 to play and 1 to keep sealed :D

[geralds]

I to me thats just plain silly but each to there own something im never going to ever see the point in sealed collecting.

[SwiftDeath]

I actually agree that I don't find sealed collecting all that appealing.

The only way I could do it without ripping every single one open would be to do as Madigan said. One to play with, one to keep sealed.

Otherwise I would go crazy looking at my own collection.

Games are indeed made to be played....

Although by that same argument, bombs are made to explode, missiles made to be launched.... :think:

Luckily the US just likes to look at it's nuclear arsenal and never takes it out of the box to play with....

[Madigan]

Luckily the US just likes to look at it's nuclear arsenal and never takes it out of the box to play with....

And now the question is, Do they have all the nuclear arsenal graded by Nuclear Weapon Authority? hmmmmm :think:

[Twisted]

One time from a large reputable department store i purchased a new PSOne game back in the day..and when i brought it home and opened it..there was no disk!!!...of course the store promptly refunded my money...i think it was a fluke..as the packaging was factory sealed..and the instruction manual and papers were flawless...imagine if i kept it sealed and sent it in to VGA and they certified and graded it a high 9 or a 10 with a fancy label etc..:D..talk about blowing smoke up someones ass.hahahaha..i think they should use some sort of x-ray tech to confirm at least inside there are contents.

[mosavon]

VGA do grade unsealed stuff aswell but i believe that it had to have originally come that way, so obviously contents would then be inspected, but honestly when i see some stuff up on ebay and i'm like wow an 80 grade or something i just think what's the point :think:

[Twisted]

i think the glory days of game collecting in order to profit are behind us..cartridge based games were more involved in manufacturering so overall there are less of them out there as compared to cd/dvd based games..which they can rapidly produce...so i guess like for every 1 cartridge they produce..10 cd/dvd games are made in the same amount of time..so if people think cd/dvd based sealed games will be just as rare potentially as sealed cartridges could be considered rare these days is sorely mistaken.

[SwiftDeath]

i think the glory days of game collecting in order to profit are behind us..cartridge based games were more involved in manufacturering so overall there are less of them out there as compared to cd/dvd based games..which they can rapidly produce...so i guess like for every 1 cartridge they produce..10 cd/dvd games are made in the same amount of time..so if people think cd/dvd based sealed games will be just as rare potentially as sealed cartridges could be considered rare these days is sorely mistaken.

I also believe that today's games will be less rare/valuable in the future because people understand their collectible nature far better.

Back in the days of cartridges, people didn't realise there would one day be collectors going after all those games and looking for sealed copies or understand how much they might one day be worth.

People threw away packaging and beat the crap out of their stuff. Finding things minty from that era is, I'm sure, a true challenge.

[Lizard Slayer]

I use VGA's service as well as buy games that have already been graded and I am glad they do what they do.

I collect sealed games (among other video game/movie items) and I am picky about the condition of the items in my collection so having them graded so that they do not get damaged is a good deal for me. I (and others like me) am willing to pay a little extra for a VGA game because I know it is in good condition and despite what the OP says, I also feel confident that it is a legit factory seal. They are not perfect, no company is, but if you do some research you will find very few games that have any kind of grading mistake on VGA's part.

As far as all the hate posted by the OP, I get the feeling there is something more to all this than just some random hatred, where did this come from in the first place?

[Madigan]

Finally a VGA user.

Who graded your games (and the ones you bought) and where?

[Lizard Slayer]

Finally a VGA user.

Who graded your games (and the ones you bought) and where?

I guess I don't get what you guys really want here? It is like asking who cooked your burger at mcdonalds, how would I know who cooked it? Do you want to stand behind a window and watch your game placed in a plastic box and signed by the guy doing it? I have seen enough examples and done enough research to trust what they do, I am not interested in convincing people to grade games as I could care less if the next guy thinks "OMG!!! its ruining the hobby!!!!!" or if he is grading games and reselling for a profit, it's not my problem. I like the look of the cases and I feel it adds a level of protection to them and if I trusted my measuring skills more I would be more inclined to buy custom cases simply for storage.

I understand why people are not interested in using the service, what I do not understand is why some people get bent out of shape about it and call other collectors "idiots" and other names just because they do not think exactly like they do, why do you even care?

[Madigan]

So you don't know who graded your item and his experience? You don't know his name, nothing?

the burger analogy is awesome.

[Lizard Slayer]

So you don't know who graded your item and his experience? You don't know his name, nothing?

the burger analogy is awesome.

Nope.

Edit: I know the owner is named Chad and I have spoken with him before, and I typically deal with Kim as do most people.

[Twisted]

what if ONE OF US is VGA?..:D...or it get's discovered and it's rocked my some scandal..turns out VGA is nothing more than a teen age kid living in his parents basement..hahahahaha

[Madigan]

what if ONE OF US is VGA?..:D...or it get's discovered and it's rocked my some scandal..turns out VGA is nothing more than a teen age kid living in his parents basement..hahahahaha

http://i.minus.com/ib0hOpF0Cfsq0a.jpg

[LonestarGoner]

Madigan....I think I love you a little bit for posting that picture. History Channel, you used to be so awesome, and now you have, um....that guy.

Lizard Slayer, the "hate" comes from the VGA misrepresenting themselves. They are not appraisers. Real appraisal in the antique collectible market is EXACTLY like appraisal in the real estate market. It comes with a legal obligation. If an antique appraiser, for example, over-assesses an item, the insurance on said item skyrockets. If that item were to be damaged and they insurance company investigates before pay-out and the item is found to be over-assessed, the appraiser may be found to have committed fraud and can possibly be sued.

Disk games may be cheaper to manufacture than cartridges, but with the variety of extras and bonuses, collecting will be big business, ESPECIALLY when games go all digital, which is very likely. Kiss collector's editions goodbye. EA, Squenix, Activision aren't going to send you fancy trinkets along with a download code. It will all be data, nothing you can touch. Building a dedicated appraisal house will be necessary not only to make sure charlatans like VGA don't continue to bilk unsuspecting collectors, but also to keep the joy of physical collections and collecting alive when games become nothing more than a phantom transaction over a net connection.

I'm not much of a blogger, but I think putting information out there might help build a forum and consensus. As one person mentioned, we have a worldwide community here, but doing it all over pictures is not reasonable. If anyone is interested, I'll post a line either here or in a new thread with a link once I get a blog up and running.

[Lizard Slayer]

Madigan....I think I love you a little bit for posting that picture. History Channel, you used to be so awesome, and now you have, um....that guy.

Lizard Slayer, the "hate" comes from the VGA misrepresenting themselves. They are not appraisers. Real appraisal in the antique collectible market is EXACTLY like appraisal in the real estate market. It comes with a legal obligation. If an antique appraiser, for example, over-assesses an item, the insurance on said item skyrockets. If that item were to be damaged and they insurance company investigates before pay-out and the item is found to be over-assessed, the appraiser may be found to have committed fraud and can possibly be sued.

Disk games may be cheaper to manufacture than cartridges, but with the variety of extras and bonuses, collecting will be big business, ESPECIALLY when games go all digital, which is very likely. Kiss collector's editions goodbye. EA, Squenix, Activision aren't going to send you fancy trinkets along with a download code. It will all be data, nothing you can touch. Building a dedicated appraisal house will be necessary not only to make sure charlatans like VGA don't continue to bilk unsuspecting collectors, but also to keep the joy of physical collections and collecting alive when games become nothing more than a phantom transaction over a net connection.

I'm not much of a blogger, but I think putting information out there might help build a forum and consensus. As one person mentioned, we have a worldwide community here, but doing it all over pictures is not reasonable. If anyone is interested, I'll post a line either here or in a new thread with a link once I get a blog up and running.


VGA does not appraise (when talking about what an item is worth) anything so this does not make sense....

I agree with the History channel guy though, lol.

Do you guys have some examples of things they have done incorrectly?

[kittychloe]

@lonestargoner, im curious as to where you learned to appraise and preserve antiques as im quite interested in how to do it as i have quite a few tin toys i would like to know how to take care of and store properly

[LonestarGoner]

This is what I was talking about, Slayer. True, the VGA does not officially "appraise" anything. They do, however, apply a "grade" to games which are used in turn to impact resale value. This is appraisal in all but name only. They can even say that their 'gradings' can increase prices for sales.

What are the benefits of selling a graded item?
Graded items will normally sell for much higher prices than un-graded items. You will be able to sell graded items faster and easier through the mail and internet.
(http://www.vggrader.com/faq.aspx#benefits)

As I posted initially, they do multiple things wrong as faux appraisers. They maintain absolute secrecy which defies all standards of ethics. They do not post credentials. At least a name, degree, experience (they post years but not what they did during those years), etc. would be fine. They have a long way to go from validity.